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And I have been pleased to meet them and pleased to invite them. Chairman Leahy. As my last inquiry, in some of the testimony this morning there has actually been a suggestion that, of program, just with all the hundreds of billions, trillions of dollars prepared to invest, you ought to just go somewhere else.


Stenger. I would inform you that in this environment the capability to increase capital for the important things we are doing would certainly have-- it is impossible to do so in a manner that would permit us as properly and as swiftly produce the important things we have done. You can obtain cash if you have obtained half down.


I could have obtained fifty percent of that if I had the $12 million in money to put up. Everyone recognizes that, yes, financial institutions have money to lending as long as you have obtained half of it in your pocket prior to you request the other fifty percent. That is not exactly how business functions these days.

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Senator Grassley. Legislator Grassley. I desire to admit that we only have unscientific details, but I would like to ask you to what degree you have to go or do go to make certain that the facilities make certain that the investments do not create tasks for people right here unlawfully.


Mr. Stenger. Legislator, I am a hands-on proprietor of a company, and I am on-property every single day. We have employed-- as I stated, at the Optimal we had 550 building and construction workers on our project. The marching orders that I offered to my group is that we are to hire local business in virtually every circumstances to do every one of the construction.


They are made up of 10, 15, 20, 30 staff members. They are profiting directly from the investment. I recognize the employees, I understand their families, and we have actually been able to utilize-- with these last 3 years of dreadful financial chaos, we have been able to use virtually every building worker in our county and the surrounding counties.

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They are invested in the areas, and they are all U.S. workers. Legislator Grassley. Mr. Stenger.


Thank you. Mr. North, along the exact same lines of the inquiry I asked him, has your research shown examples various other-- and I just gave one example, so I intend to confess that and be liable regarding it-- of facilities working with undocumented individuals? Mr. North. That type of information is very difficult to acquire from USCIS, and I have to say that what we do understand about a number of the internal things regarding that company regarding this program is worried associates with instances in which the team has said no to an application of some kind and then the local facility or the specific business owner has actually mosted likely to the Administrative Appeals Office-- which becomes part of the agency-- and there we get files, we get a hearing policeman informing us what is taking place because certain instance.




This is a poor application." So there is a quantity of bad applications out there, yet just when that process gets prior to a management law judge do we see a lot in the method of detail. Now, there was one case that you stated, and let me just specify on that a little.

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Do not take too long because I want to ask one more couple concerns. Go ahead and quickly finish. Mr. North. The dairy farm had claimed 17 workers, and they entered into it, and the judge found that 16 of them were illegals. Now, that is the one instance I have, and it is a fine example.


Okay. I am going continue reading this to ask different inquiries of each of the 3 of you, however it handles this one issue. As I claimed in my opening declaration, I am concerned about the potential loophole that enables investors to withdraw their financial investment in local centers after receiving their copyright.


Mr. Divine. I would certainly say that many of the financiers, if you asked them what are their objectives, they would claim, "I desire to get a copyright, and I desire to maintain it.


If I place my cash in a hotel development-- Senator Grassley. Can I presume then that you are claiming that there does not require to be any changes made from this source in that regard? Mr. Divine. I do not believe so. Legislator Grassley. Okay. Allow me ask Mr. Stenger, is it typical for a financier in your experience to withdraw his/her investment instantly after getting a permit? Mr.

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Legislator, no. Our programs need that the investor be spent for a minimum of 5 years and be repaid just if business remains in a setting to do so at the end of that time. So we have the advantage of the capital to create the business, obtain it running, make it successful, assure that the work will certainly be produced and maintained, and afterwards just if the company succeeds will certainly there be a departure click to investigate technique for the investor.